Contradictions with Joseph Smith and Book of Mormon
There are even some contradictions within, from the prophet from the book....can you help
A Mormon will "bear his testimony" by declaring, "Joseph Smith is a prophet of God and the Book of Mormon is the Word of God." This testimony presents the two basic Mormon presuppositions.
If Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon are both "of God" then the two should be consistent with each other, especially in regards to their teachings about the nature of God and His relationship to us.
But are they? To answer this question passages from the Book of Mormon will be presented followed by quotes from the writings of Joseph Smith.
The quotations will be presented without comment, with the most pertinent parts emphasized.(1) This way, the reader can decide for yourself how consistent these "inspired" sources are on these vital topics.
One God or Many?
Book of Mormon:
"And Zeezrom said unto him: Thou sayest there is a true and living God? And Amulek said: Yea, there is a true and living God. Now Zeezrom said: IS THERE MORE THAN ONE GOD? And he answered, NO" (Alma 11:26-29).(2)
Joseph Smith:
"And then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and THEY, THAT IS THE GODS, organized and formed the havens and the earth."
"And THEY (THE GODS) said: Let there be light; and there was light."
"And THE GODS TOOK COUNSEL AMONG THEMSELVES and said: Let us go down and form man in our image, after our likeness."
"And THE GODS SAID AMONG THEMSELVES: On the seventh time we will end our work, which we have counseled; and we will rest on the seventh time from all our work which we have counseled."(3)
The Father, Son, and Spirit:
One or Three?
Book of Mormon:
"And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, WHICH IS ONE GOD. Amen" (Introduction: Testimony of three witnesses).
"... every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, WHICH IS ONE ETERNAL GOD" (Alma 1:44b).(4)
"Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I AM JESUS CHRIST. I AM THE FATHER AND THE SON" (Ether 3:14).
"Teach them that redemption cometh through CHRIST THE LORD, WHO IS THE VERY ETERNAL FATHER. Amen" (Mosiah 16:15; see also 2Nephi 31:21; Mosiah 15:1-5; Alma 11:38,39; 3Nephi 11:27,36; Mormon 7:7).
Joseph Smith:
"I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, JESUS CHRIST A SEPARATE AND DISTINCT PERSONAGE FROM GOD THE FATHER, and the Holy Spirit was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute THREE DISTINCT PERSONAGES AND THREE GODS."(5)
"Peter and Stephen testify that they saw the son of Man standing on the right hand of God. Any person that had seen the heavens opened knows that there are THREE PERSONAGES in the heavens who hold the keys of power, and one presides over all."(6)
"When the light rested upon me I saw TWO PERSONAGES, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other - This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!"(7,8)
God: Spirit or Flesh?
Book of Mormon:
"And the king said: IS GOD THAT GREAT SPIRIT that brought our fathers out of the land of Jerusalem? And Aaron said unto him: YEA, HE IS THAT GREAT SPIRIT, and he created all things both in heaven and in earth" (Alma 22:9,10a).
"And then Ammon said: Believest thou that there is a GREAT SPIRIT? And he said, Yea. And Ammon said: THIS IS GOD" (Alma 18:26-28a).
"Holy, holy God; we believe that thou art God, and we believe that thou art holy, and that THOU WAST A SPIRIT, AND THAT THOU ART A SPIRIT, AND THAT THOU WILT BE A SPIRIT FOREVER" (Alma 31:15).
Joseph Smith:
"If the veil were rent today and the great God who holds this world on its orbit and who upholds all worlds and things by His power was to make Himself visible, - I say, if you were to see Him today, you would see Him LIKE A MAN IN FORM - like yourselves in all the person, image, and VERY FORM AS A MAN...."(9)
"THE FATHER HAS A BODY OF FLESH AND BONES as tangible as man's; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of spirit."(10)
Always God or an Exalted Man?
Book of Mormon:
"For do we not read that GOD IS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND FOREVER, and in him there is no variableness neither shadow of changing?" (Mormon 9:9).
"For behold, GOD knowing all things, BEING FROM EVERLASTING TO EVERLASTING, behold, he sent angels to minister unto the children of men" (Moroni 7:22).
"For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but HE IS UNCHANGEABLE FROM ALL ETERNITY TO ALL ETERNITY" (Moroni 8:18).
Joseph Smith:
"GOD HIMSELF WAS ONCE AS WE ARE NOW AND IS AN EXALTED MAN and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!...
"It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know that HE WAS ONCE A MAN LIKE US; yea, that God Himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; and I will show it from the Bible."(11)
Praise God or Become a God?
Book of Mormon:
"... that I might go down in peace, and my immortal spirit may join the choirs above in SINGING THE PRAISES OF A JUST GOD" (Mosiah 2:28b).
"And he [Jesus Christ] hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to SING CEASELESS PRAISES with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end" (Mormon 7:7).
Joseph Smith:
"Gods have an ascendency over the angels, who are ministering spirits. In the resurrection, some are raised to be angels; others are RAISED TO BECOME GODS."(12)
"... they [a righteous, resurrected husband and wife] will pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fullness and continuation of the seeds forever and ever. THEN THEY SHALL BE GODS, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then they shall be above all, because all things are subject to them. THEN SHALL THEY BE GODS, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them."(13)
"... because they [Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob] did none other things than that which was commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but ARE GODS."(14)
Comments
I think that there are more
I think that there are more positive things to do with your time than rip on other peoples' religion. If you don't believe it, don't believe it! But why do you waste so much of your time (how long did it TAKE you to "research" and type all of your out of context quotes?) trying to crap on everyone elses' beliefs instead of trying to find a religion that will work for you? Pathetic. I think only poeple who are insecure with themselves have to bag on everyone else. It all goes back to the whole high school bully thing. What are you gaining, spiritually, by being so negative? Intolerance is the whole reason we have a terrorist problem here in the U.S. right now. Learn to love and live with others peoples' differences.
Hi Mormon 422, He does have a
Hi Mormon 422, He does have a religion. It's called Anti Mormon or (Anti (our) Christ). In the begining, God put emnity between the woman (Christ's church) and the serpent (Satan and his followers). They are wolves, they have to attack in order to live up to prophecy.
I beg to differ...why are you
I beg to differ...why are you so blinded...does your history and the begining of the church and your own documents proove your religion....I have no religion...I don't need a religion..I have Jesus..who is all I need...Jesus came to the earth...the word became flesh so that we might have a way to him...Religion killed Christ, because they couldn't believe...He taught in the synagoges to show what there religion was doing...Blind Pharicies....they took the word of God and added mens dumbness...The thief on the cross...all he had to do was BELIEVE...The Jehovah Witnesses...replaced the bible with their own and you consider them a cult...You have replaced the bible with your own...I consider your religion a cult...You say here look at the BOM it says here, but you need to take the bible and say here look in here and test your religion by the bible, not the bible to your religion...Your own books and documents do not add up to what you are saying....Your teachers of your religion new what was happening back then...Are you so blind and caught up with religion that you cannot have a personal relationship with JESUS...I go to a nondenomiational church, we teach from the BIBLE...that is all we need...When God came down to us...WOW...that is amazing grace....He new we could never reach him...He made a path to us...JESUS is the Way, the TRUTH, and the LIFE.....HE has given us everything we need to be with him....HE, GOD, said it is FINISHED....nothing else needs to happen...OPEN your eyes to your heart...you have been taught a religion, IF you live by the Law you will be judged by the LAW...Don't do it you will fail....as I do daily...
If you dont have
If you dont have religion,Idaho, why do you follow the doctrine of Constantine? You cant say you follow only the Bible when you cling so tightly to the doctrine of the trinity, which was not given by God through revelation.
If all of what you claim here is true. You believe, you believe. Why do you care what we believe? You care because you want people to FOLLOW you, and you claim you can lead us to Christ. We don't want to follow YOU, and so you trash our belief in Christ and you trash the prophet WE CHOOSE to follow.
You say WE (Mormons) consider the Jehovahs Witnesses a cult??? That is a false accusation. Can you show me where one of the 12 apostles of our faith has been quoted as saying this? We think of them as all the others who believe in Christ. They have some truth but preach and teach without being called and authorized by Him to do so. They get a lot of things right in their interpretations of scripture and their intentions are good and we do not hate them.
You do not see any Anti JW web sites posted by our church. We let all worship how, where, or what they may and we will not kill their leaders or persecute the followers. We will, however, send out our missionaries meek and mild and harmless as doves to teach. If one CHOOSES to open their door and hear he may and if he CHOOSES to join he may, and if he CHOOSES to leave he may and we will not hurt or kill him for CHOOSING what his soul dictates he do.
There was one wise Pharisee who said in defense of the true teachers of Christ and their organized religion that IF it(their gospel) were not of God they would eventually fall and if they were truely of God, no man could stop it(that gospel).
This is sooooo true. No matter what you do Idaho, no matter how many you convince to follow you, no matter that your friends killed our prophet and thought that would end this Gospel of Christ, No matter that they chased us out of our homes and our country, no matter that it was made legal to kill us in Mossouri, none could stop it.
So why not pray the prayer of the Lord. "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done." Whether or not this church grows and prospers will depend eventually on God himself. If it is of God you cannot stop it.
The Gospel, in all ages, has been wonderful yet with a few things in it to cause people to doubt. These things are nessissary in order to weed out those who think they can find God with a carnal mind depending on physical evidences and expecting perfection from those who claim to be his prophets. He expects men to search and then ASK HIM who is right.
Yes your are right...I DO
Yes your are right...I DO CARE...if a religion teaches different than the BIBLE..which again you should base your facts on...IN Isahia it states there is only ONE GOD...start there...Besides me there is no other GOD...
How come you cannot answer these questions...
Is it your missionary training to berate the believer...what have I said that is untrue?
Dueteronomy 18:21-22
And if thou say in thine heart, how shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?
When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously; thou shalt not be afraid of him.
You have not proven his prophecies and they did not come to pass...false prophecies making a false prophet...I do not want to follow a false prophet..
DOCTRINES OF SALVATION by Joseph F. SMith Vol 1, pg 188
Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. THere is no middle ground.
If Joseph Smith was a deceiver who willfully attempted to mislead the people then he should be exposed: his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines whom to be false, for the doctrines of an imposter cannot be made to harmonize in all particulars with divine truth. If his claims and declarations were built upon fraud and deceit, there would appear MANY ERRORS and CONTRADICTION, which would be EASY to detect. THe doctrines of false teachers will not stand the test when tried by the accepted standards of measurement of the SCRIPTURES....This guy is right on...man these were easy to detect...there sure are alot more...
What will it take....read Galations...I would rather it becalled Mormons....
If you have searched and
If you have searched and tested this prophet how come you don't come up with the same stuff...or do you not search, but have been taught...
Please please please just
Please please please just give up talking to this poor guy, Mormon! What we have to say is not going to change his mind, and what he has to say is obviously not going to change ours. He obviously thrives on contention. Sorry, but this whole things really bugs. See you all later (in hell, apparently!). :0)
Mormon 442, my intention is
Mormon 442, my intention is not to change HIS mind but the mind of others who come here. I dont want them to have his account only. I do believe in contending for the faith but in word only.
Men like him in times past would contend with their mouth and when that did not work they would pick up their swords and shed blood because of it.
Satan always likes to prove his point with force and bloodshed. He "covets fields" (Christs followers/church) "and taketh them by violence."
(Amos 3:10)
Christ was not violent and his sword was his word.
Thank goodness that we live in a time when this is not acceptable behavior and that most people follow their concience. (the light of Christ)
Christ and his apostles did not shy away from this verbal debate and I do not see it to be evil to speak against him in defense of truth.
The scriptures tell us that ALL their secrets shall be made known. The secrets of his faith are being made known.
I hope to let innocent obsevers know that he has his view but that its not as simple as he would like to present it. I hope to convince them to look deep and consider things and then in the end take only God's opinion on this subject. I hope they will believe that God is real and does speak in all reality to his humble repentant children who want the full truth here.
He is free to gnash his teeth and hate us without good cause. He knows not what he does nor who he offends by his railings. I dont suppose he will change. I hope only that I can convince him to judge us with the same fair and consistant judgment he would judge his own. He hasnt even looked at his own until now I would bet.
It's simply an extension to the war in heaven.
idaho, do you really think
idaho, do you really think the name "non denominational" makes you any different than the others who also teach from the Bible? Somehow you have convinced yourself that you follow no religion. In Christ's day it was HIS organization that you followed in order to be called His. Religion did NOT kill Christ. Evil men who called themselves to speak for God killed Christ. Christ's own doctrine is what killed Him. He was rejected because he was living instead of dead. All those who falsely claimed to love God loved only the words of the dead prophets, not the living. They did not want scripture explained by living prophets and they did not want correction. I'm sure they would have said they wanted correction if it REALLY were from God. There was not enough PROOF for them and since they believed they had all God wanted them to have in the Old Testament why should they need a living prophet? You can say you have enough of God's word in the Bible and you need nothing else. Would if there is more that he wants you to know? Would if the leaders of Christianity really did leave out things of importantce? Would if they really did care more about conquering countries and people for themselves and not for Christ. Would if he wanted to restore things to their proper order? Why would you tell Him you "have enough, no thanks"?
What is the difference between your statement now about having "all you need" and the Jews who said "we have the law and the prophets" "we have Abraham to our Father"? They had recieved a PORTION of God's word and thought it enough just like you.
God never said no more revelation. You take that sentance "it is finished" and make it fit what you already believed. (that God would not talk to Prophets or Men again)
I ubnderstand that verse totally different than you. I believe he had finished what His Father had sent Him to do. (Die for the sins of men.) That task was "finished". Where do you pull from those words that revelation and prophets were "finished". Or that scripture was "finished"? If that was it then there are a lot of things contained in your New Testament that were written after it was "finished". Why did Christ appear to Paul if it(revelation) was "finished"? The vision of Johns was given after it was "finished". Why this revelation? If Christ had "finished" IT at that moment, as you claim?
Why would you want to silence your God? If he is the same yesterday, today and forever then why would he give revelation all through time and then do away with revelation? Shouldnt he have given all there was to Adam and then said "that's all of it, I'm not coming to correct you again"? There is just as much a need for a living prophet today as ever to help understand the written words of the dead prophets.
I agree with JustPT. What can you give me from your faith that I dont already have? Bible? No, already believe it. Christ? No, already accept, love, believe, have faith, and depend on Him for salvation. Plus I accept his LIVING prophets as well as the dead.
If I believe in good works along with faith how am I worse off for it?
What will you give me more that I should switch?
I'm still waiting for many unanswered questions.
I answered all of yours.
I have read what you have
I have read what you have written and find you to be quite deceived. You twist things to fit your little round hole.... I am very thankful I am not you. Satan can turn things as he needs to suit his purposes and he has chosen you as his mouthpiece and you have gone willingly. Hopefully, someday you will see this. Good luck to you. I don't think a mormon site is where you belong.