Lets start over...

Yeah. Let's start over - and discuss the same OLD (& new) things: because ALL of this LAST DAYS stuff is 2,000 years old, and to you and me it is all new. We KNOW that all the previous interpretations of the SIGNS OF THE TIMES were WRONG. But NOW is the generation in which they have been and are being fulfilled. If I sound a little sarcastic, I am feeling that way.

(By the way, thanks for the URL to the Nibley-bash site: I love it: looked over a few of the accusations of his "lying" and found them immediately funny. I mean, it is literally impossible to please everybody. The man is a tremendous talent, and his brain moves over material at an incredible rate while he stands there talking: you will miss half of what he is saying if you stop to think. Afterward, you can go over it all and marvel. Yeah, he's said some things that aren't quite word for word: but I have never heard him make anything up, or outright get any passage wrong. Nitpicking to the max is what I saw right away: accusing him of lying is very harsh: because the objection was over the choice of exact words, not changing the meaning of anything. Anyway, I find jealous people irritating and interesting at the same time: I was at a symposium where Dr Nibley spoke, and the colleague who introduced him said: "Brother Nibley is the only church scholar I know who has ever been invited here to give the same talk twice." It was meant to be funny, but was obviously a slam from a man who is jealous of Nibley's "legendary" status. People in the gospel of Christ are supposed to be above such things: and Nibley always has been - a very gracious and humble person. And honest to a fault: a very famous incident regarding his cutting honesty occured many years back, during a BYU commencement exercise, where Nibely was invited to offer the invocation: he moved up to the podium, wearing the cap and gown, and then he said words to the effect: "Heavenly Father; we come before thee, gathered together wearing the robes of a false priesthood." Needless to say, he caught flack over that one: but hardly anyone was interested in why he said it. It all has to do with getting down to the center of our religion, which covers enough truth seeking to last several mortal lifetimes. He is now well into his 90s and still going strong, last I heard.)

The "mark of the beast" has seemed to me a literal mark, just as described in Revelations: and I have always said, that if the day ever comes that my children or yet-unborn grandchildren, or MYSELF, are required by law to receive a "chip" in hand or forehead, that is the day I will cease to be a citizen of this nation. The antiChrist/Beast himself and his successor(s) will certainly be a single individual. They will come into power from an ignominious source (a people without honor), and their elevation will be resented by many. It will not last long: c. 42 months (Daniel and Revelations both agree on that): during which time frame the antiChrist will have power over the Saints, to bind them in prisons and kill them and enter their temples as if we were God, and he will claim to be greater than God. Forty-two months (three and a half years) is a long time to endure such terror. Meanwhile, Israel will be cut off from all political support and stand alone against the massed armies of the "united" world: 600 million men, if memory serves (I am going with this rehash totally from memory). Half the city of Jerusalem will be in flames and captured: half the Israeli army and population killed and captured, and the rest will be girding for the final battle: when Christ will come and rescue them by a cataclysmic intervention (spliting mount of Olives, earthquake and so forth). Then the Jews will see the prints of the nails in his hands and realize their mistaken past with tears. The wicked will be largely consumed in the cataclysm, the rest will fight amongst themselves to destruction. Christ will show himself to the whole earth (as the sun rising out of the east) and the wicked will then be burnt, while the righteous will be saved; evidently, if taken literally, by being removed from the surface of the planet while the cleansing fire does its work. (Your "rapture"; but it sounds rather scientific to me, not mystical, but a very real and physical removal.) Then the Millennium will begin and the earth will be renewed in its former paradisiacal glory. Christ will rule and reign as king of the earth for "a thousand years of peace."

Timing is what is on everyone's mind: WHEN? God alone knows. Not even the angels of heaven know when Christ comes. You would be mistaken to try and date the second coming using our calendars: they are so corrupt and manmade that I am sure God's timing doesn't equate with ours to the slightest degree. It doesn't matter. Would knowing WHEN make me more righteous? Nope: just more careful to cross all my "T"s and dot all my "I"s. God who knows my heart would not be impressed. So I should be living all the time as if my next breath were to be my last. That way, if I am around (or not) to meet the Beast in the flesh it matters not at all. Soon enough I will be dead anyway, and my meeting with my Savior will be a personal reality.

Joseph Smith taught that the final consumption of the world decreed would bring about an end to all nations. He also said that man is incapable of governing himself. He was right, of course: governing nations is perhaps the activity that mankind has failed miserably at the most. All good starts become dictatorships. All unions becomes oppressive eventually: ours included: I agree that things are looking worse for our civil rights and freedoms. Excuses of needing national security don't wash with me. Individual freedom is the answer: but control freaks in politics don't have any fun *controlling* millions of free individuals. Keep your guns handy and pass out the bullets after church is over: that's sort of how I look at the world: practice your religion, worshipping God, and be ready to shoot the mad dogs when they come near. I hope I never have to....

The pope is not my top choice for the antiChrist. I rather imagine it will be someone who was once highly thought of in the true faith: who possesses lots of knowledge of religious matters, and then turns totally away from his upbringing and fights against his own people. In Daniel we are told that his disciples will perform "exploits" (it is an inserted word in the KJ Bible: but the inference of "they shall do" means that mighty and momentous things will be done by them - "exploits" works, but I like "prodigies" even better). But Daniel also says that the righteous will perform "exploits." In other words, the fight will produce champions who will do amazing things for their side. The righteous will have some leaders turn to the dark; to try the righteous and "make them white" i. e. purify their souls. It sounds like a terrifying and exciting time to live through! The real clincher, the one physical detail which will be utterly outside the capacity of the evil side to prevent, will be the raising up of the two prophets in Jerusalem, who will also prophecy and control the weather and be unkillable for 42 months (I suspect during the same time as the reign of the antiChrist). They will eventually be killed and lie in the streets for three days, while the wicked rejoice and congratulate each other: but then the voice will come from heaven, and life will return to their bodies and before the eyes of the world they will be seen to rise up. This event is immediately before the final destruction of the wicked (i. e. anytime afterward not too terribly long, months or a few years). At any rate, in our church, it is generally believed the two prophets spoken of will be a couple of our apostles, or perhaps some converted Jews in Jerusalem. Nobody knows.